With Biden as an ally, United Auto Workers union prepares to fight for EV jobs

[ajdelange]

Unions are crooked. From the top down. Why would workers vote for Union representation if the companies are treating /paying employees fairly?

One of the reasons is that the union is allowed to propangandize but the company is not allowed to respond. Musk asked your question in an e-mail to the employees (in which he mentioned the oopportunity to acquire Tesla stock) and got in big trouble with NRLB.

 

[datechboss101]

Stating that unions are crooked, or that they're a problem with no evidence is a problem, and they show that you're crooked.

-Crissa

Unions overall are crooked, not just auto unions. Just look at the teacher's union over the past year, which literally exposed the teachers' unions. They don't put the American childrens' interests before theirs. Keep in mind, unions are politicalized from the beginning, so unnecessary government propaganda and politics are heavy in unions.

Also, saying that one person is crooked when they are showing facts and truths about how crooked and messed up unions are is ignorant.

 

[Bill906]

Unions are crooked
Corporations are crooked
governments are crooked
Religions are crooked

What is the common denominator? They all are made up of humans.

Humans are crooked

Singling out Unions as being crooked without pointing out corporations are just as crooked is the ignorant part.

Unions are good. They organize and represent the workers. In the past some unions may have gotten a little to powerful and overstepped. Many corporations have also become to powerful and overstepped. Implying all unions are bad based on some examples would allow one to also argue all corporations are bad by pointing out examples of bad ones. (<cough> Enron <cough>)

Unions are needed to keep corporations in check. Paying fair wages, maintaining safe work environment and giving workers benefits all lower a companies profits. (or at least seem to for the short sighted) A companies number one priority is making the largest profit it can. Because unions seem to go against this, companies will often point to unions as an excuse for higher costs, poor performance etc. Sometimes that is true. Often it's management using unions as a scapegoat for poor management decisions. If they do that enough, the uninformed public can get the false impression that all unions must be bad.

 

[ajdelange]

I don't think Musk, Scaringe, Rawlins,,, would have been able to do what they have done in a union shop environment. I have never had to work in a union shop, thank heavens, but the stories I have heard from colleagues are amazing. This is not the 19th century with 8 year olds loading spools of thread onto looms for 18 hr shifts in an unheated factory. It's adults loading spools of semiconductors onto pick and place machines in clean rooms. IOW its high tech and in high tech you need a team mentality if you are to succeed. A union's main operating principle is to convince the unsophisticated worker that he is being screwed by the management and that only we, the union leadership, can right this wrong. Thus an adversarial relationship between management and the work force is necessary for the success of the union. That doesn't work in a high tech industry.

Unions hurt the investor, the customer, the company and the employee. So far the Tesla workers, and I assume the Rivian and Lucid workers have been smart enough to perceive this and the fact that they see it this way is indicative that these employers have offered them better than they will get from a union. The companies need to be careful to continue to do this or the cancer of unions will creep in. They will do to the BEV industry what they did to the ICE industry and we'll all lose out.

 

[TruckElectric]

Humans are crooked

Singling out Unions as being crooked without pointing out corporations are just as crooked

I assumed that everyone new corporations were crooked. ?

Unions are good.

I don't think so anyway. The only union I have any respect for is the Airlines Pilots Association union.
They seem to run a tight ship regarding corruption in my view. I haven't seen near as much news about corruption in their ranks.

I look at unions like I do auto dealerships. They are unnecessary and don't really help the consumer/individual.

If you have a complaint about a companies practices you can do this: If you have questions about filing a charge or petition, please contact your local Regional office for assistance. You can find the office nearest you at Regional Offices or dial 1-844-762-NLRB.
How to File an Unfair Labor Practice Charge With the NLRB

1. Step 1: Determine if There Is a Violation of the National Labor Relations Act. ...
2. Step 2: Call the Information Officer at the Nearest NLRB Regional Office. ...
3. Step 3: Complete the Charge Form. ...
4. Step 4: Send the Charge Form to the NLRB Regional Office With Jurisdiction Over the Matter.

https://apps.nlrb.gov/MyAccount/#/ChargeAndPetition/TermsConditions

Unions are needed to keep corporations in check.

That's what National Labor Relations Board is for.

Often it's management using unions as a scapegoat for poor management decisions.

Yes I've seen that. But if there is no union they have no scapegoat.

 

[Red61224]

I don't think Musk, Scaringe, Rawlins,,, would have been able to do what they have done in a union shop environment. I have never had to work in a union shop, thank heavens, but the stories I have heard from colleagues are amazing. This is not the 19th century with 8 year olds loading spools of thread onto looms for 18 hr shifts in an unheated factory. It's adults loading spools of semiconductors onto pick and place machines in clean rooms. IOW its high tech and in high tech you need a team mentality if you are to succeed. A union's main operating principle is to convince the unsophisticated worker that he is being screwed by the management and that only we, the union leadership, can right this wrong. Thus an adversarial relationship between management and the work force is necessary for the success of the union. That doesn't work in a high tech industry.

Unions hurt the investor, the customer, the company and the employee. So far the Tesla workers, and I assume the Rivian and Lucid workers have been smart enough to perceive this and the fact that they see it this way is indicative that these employers have offered them better than they will get from a union. The companies need to be careful to continue to do this or the cancer of unions will creep in. They will do to the BEV industry what they did to the ICE industry and we'll all lose out.

My late father who has been departed for 21 years was a Union Member many, many years ago and he would puke at what the unions have done to this country and where they place their loyalties today. He was a member of the AFL-CIO (machinist) for years since he worked in a "closed shop" and it was mandatory membership for the pleasure of holding the job. I still get the union propaganda in the mail a few times a year, wonder what that cost, oh, don't worry some guy faithfully paying his dues pays for it says the union boss.

 

[Crissa]

... $100 million in union dues since 2001;

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/wage-theft-us-companies-workers/

I think $60 billion annually is a bit bigger than $100 million in twenty years. Especially when there are $5.8 billion in union dues annually (according to ANH.com, anyhow).

But thanks, guys, for proving how crooked you guys are, for speaking out against unions using no evidence but propaganda. Proving my point for me.

I still get the union propaganda in the mail a few times a year, wonder what that cost, oh, don't worry some guy faithfully paying his dues pays for it says the union boss.

Union bosses are an elected position. If you don't like them, vote for a different one.

-Crissa

 

[Quicksilver]

I have had very little interactions with unions most of it bad.
When I was a truck driver the worse place in the world was a union warehouse. Paying a forklift operator a bribe was often the only way to expedite loading/unloading. Said bribe came out of the drivers pocket.
In my home town back in the day the two best jobs were the steel mill and a Goodyear plant. Both had been here a long, long time. Over the years the unions representing both companies became more and more corrupt and hard to deal with. The economics of steel imports and corporate raiders caused a couple of buy outs and the union refused to negotiate the last new contract and the plant shut down back in the 80's. Goodyear held on till two years ago and once again the union advised the rank and file to not accept a new contract and Goodyear shut the plant down. That plant was steadily making tires for the various automobile companies in the area.
When I worked at a Chemical Weapons Demil Facility (government contractor) we voted the union down three times because we were making good money and already had too many people telling us what to do. The union organizers were all ex steel workers that had hired on.
Back in the day I think unions were necessary and did a lot of good. Later on they became political organizations full of power hungry bosses that played politics at the expense of the workers.