Is Consumer Reports on the take from Big Oil and Gas?

[FutureBoy]

Consumer Reports seems to be having a general conniption over EVs lately. What gives?

 

[FutureBoy]

EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports points to some problem areas

STEPHEN EDELSTEIN JANUARY 14, 2022

2019 Audi E-tron

2020 Tesla Model X

2020 Tesla Model S

In a reliability survey published last November, Consumer Reports named electric SUVs the least-reliable vehicle type. Now CR has followed that up with a report shedding light on specific problem areas.

On average, EVs have significantly higher problem rates than internal-combustion vehicles across model years 2019 and 2020, according to CR's data. That improved somewhat for 2021, but certain models still showed high rates of problems, according to the report.

The most common EV problem areas were "in-car electronics, noises and leaks, power equipment, climate system, body hardware, drive system, and paint and trim," the report said.

A specific example of an "in-car electronics" failure was a display screen going blank in 2019 Audi E-Tron models, while problems with exterior door lights in the same model constituted a "power equipment" issue.

The report also pointed out "drive system" problems with the 2019 Chevrolet Bolt EV that included "electrical failure, drive unit replacement, and other faulty components."

Other examples involved Tesla vehicles, from failing temperature sensors in the 2020 Model S, to loose trim and mismatched paint on the 2020 Model Y. CR singled out the latter for "much worse than average" reliability last year.

Survey respondents also reported problems with seals and weatherstripping in the 2020 Model X, which can cause water leaks and wind noise. The Model X's doors have presented issues from the start. In 2016, CEO Elon Musk said he was "not sure anyone should have built or designed this car, because it's so difficult to make."

In all cases, the important point is not just that these problems occur, but that they occur at a higher rate than in comparable internal-combustion vehicles. Despite that, CR found high rates of owner satisfaction, indicating that many EV owners aren't too worried about reliability issues.

The same 2021 reliability survey also found that hybrids and plug-in hybrids cost less to maintain and repair. CR also noted that "most of these vehicles are built on proven systems," which could be an advantage when it comes to reliability.

 

[Crissa]

"Article"?

-Crissa

 

[FutureBoy]

"Article"?

-Crissa

Just saving a place for the article so I have time to add it before everyone else comments and loses the follow-on placement. The article is there now.

 

[Ogre]

The most common EV problem areas were "in-car electronics, noises and leaks, power equipment, climate system, body hardware, drive system, and paint and trim," the report said.

When I hear “reliability”, I think of cars broken down on the side of the road. Or at the very least, how many times my check engine light comes on and I have to go to service in 5 years time.

When I read an article on reliability and it lists “paint and trim”… it’s clear they have a different measure of “reliability“ than I do.

Have cars in general become so much more reliable in the 9 years since I last bought one new that we don’t worry about the check engine light or breakdowns anymore?

What exactly is “unreliable” paint? Does it fail to “Red” on some days and you have to call service? I mean… I understand “Bad Paint Job”, but has anyone ever said “This paint is so unreliable”?

I have no idea if CR is “On the take” and don’t really care to speculate on that, but I do know that my trust in them as a reliable source of reviews has dropped over the past 5-10 years or so.

 

[Ogre]

Other examples involved Tesla vehicles, from failing temperature sensors in the 2020 Model S, to loose trim and mismatched paint on the 2020 Model Y. CR singled out the latter for "much worse than average" reliability last year.

The quality (not reliability… quality!!) issues with the early Model Y are well known. The failing temperature gauge on the Model S is… actually a reliability issue.

 

[FutureBoy]

On average, EVs have significantly higher problem rates than internal-combustion vehicles across model years 2019 and 2020, according to CR's data. That improved somewhat for 2021, but certain models still showed high rates of problems, according to the report.

So, we're starting with data that is a bit old. But hey, CR is supposedly non-profit so I'll give them a bit of leeway.

A specific example of an "in-car electronics" failure was a display screen going blank in 2019 Audi E-Tron models, while problems with exterior door lights in the same model constituted a "power equipment" issue.

Maybe the display screen issue constitutes reliability. But the exterior door lights? Annoying I'm sure but reliability issue?

I wonder what they would classify the issues Ford was having with OTA updates that couldn't be performed by the dealers? But hey, we don't want to disparage Ford, do we?

The report also pointed out "drive system" problems with the 2019 Chevrolet Bolt EV that included "electrical failure, drive unit replacement, and other faulty components."

Now, with the level of failure the Chevy Bolt has been experiencing, there really is no way to avoid mentioning the issue. So yes, this is an EV issue. And one that Chevy needs to fully address before putting out any other EVs. I guess they got burned on the Bolt. Pun intended.

Other examples involved Tesla vehicles, from failing temperature sensors in the 2020 Model S, to loose trim and mismatched paint on the 2020 Model Y. CR singled out the latter for "much worse than average" reliability last year.

Yes, for a period there were some issues with Tesla vehicles. I would not count these as reliability issues though. If the vehicle still works fine, there is no reliability involved. And if Tesla is fixing the issue under warranty then there is no additional cost either. So beyond a little inconvenience, I don't see a real problem here.

What they don't mention of course is the extreme safety of the Tesla vehicles that end up saving lives so much better than ANY other vehicle on the road. Just that alone should be a big plus in the reliability factor. I rely on my Tesla to help keep me safe.

Survey respondents also reported problems with seals and weatherstripping in the 2020 Model X, which can cause water leaks and wind noise. The Model X's doors have presented issues from the start. In 2016, CEO Elon Musk said he was "not sure anyone should have built or designed this car, because it's so difficult to make."

Sure there used to be door issues with MX. But I thought this report from CR was based on data from 2019 to 2020. What's with the 2016 issue? Stretching much?

And again, weather stripping is not a reliability issue.

The same 2021 reliability survey also found that hybrids and plug-in hybrids cost less to maintain and repair. CR also noted that "most of these vehicles are built on proven systems," which could be an advantage when it comes to reliability.

Cost less than what? I seriously doubt that hybrids cost less to maintain or repair than EVs. Unless you include all the FUD costs of course.

 

[CyberGus]

What exactly is “unreliable” paint? Does it fail to “Red” on some days and you have to call service? I mean… I understand “Bad Paint Job”, but has anyone ever said “This paint is so unreliable”?

The DeLorean paint is so unreliable, I can barely see it most of the time

 

[CyberGus]

I’m no fan of CR; they lost my respect when they showed how “easily” two drunk men used TACC to kill themselves in 12 easy steps.

BUT…the CR story is titled “Insights for More Reliable Electric Vehicles”, with some legitimate points. It was “greencarreports.com” that added the clickbait title “EVs are the least reliable vehicle type”.

 

[Ogre]

I’m actually a bit worried about Cybertruck finish. Seems like a lot of potential for panels to be slightly different levels of polish unless they do a polish run at the very ends of the process.

 

[Ogre]

I’m no fan of CR; they lost my respect when they showed how “easily” two drunk men used TACC to kill themselves in 12 easy steps.

BUT…the CR story is titled “Insights for More Reliable Electric Vehicles”, with some legitimate points. It was “greencarreports.com” that added the clickbait title “EVs are the least reliable vehicle type”.

Fair enough… but I still think paint doesn’t belong under reliability.

 

[Crissa]

When reliability isn't measured through objective means, it's not reliability they're measuring.

-Crissa

 

[CyberGus]

I’m actually a bit worried about Cybertruck finish. Seems like a lot of potential for panels to be slightly different levels of polish unless they do a polish run at the very ends of the process.

The DeLorean panels were grained individually and did not have any matching issues. However, we still do not know how the CT exterior will be finished, if at all.

 

[HaulingAss]

I’m actually a bit worried about Cybertruck finish. Seems like a lot of potential for panels to be slightly different levels of polish unless they do a polish run at the very ends of the process.

I hope the stock finish is specified as "mill run" which means it contains all the minor impefections of the stainless as it came from the mill, including minor imperfections added by the manufacturing process.

In this case, Tesla could equip every Cybertruck they sell with three different grades of Scotchbrite pads (very fine, fine and medium coarse) and simple instructions for creating your own preferred finishes and how to best touch it up with Scotchbrite after outback adventures including lots of mud, branches and mowing down large saplings. They could include sample photos of swirl finishes, linear patterns, basic matte finish as well as different levels of polished finishes achievable with a buffing machine.

You could also order it with select robot polishes for an extra $200 or a robot polish finished off with a human inspection and touch-up for an additional $200. For an extra $1000 you could order it custom laser engraved after polishing with a graphic file you design and upload to your Tesla account.

 

[WildhavenMI]

The DeLorean panels were grained individually and did not have any matching issues. However, we still do not know how the CT exterior will be finished, if at all.

I mean...tbh, if Elon said "we're not even removing the mill scale, deal with it" I bet a bunch of us would still be alright with it.