Washington State Plans to Ban Sales of Gasoline Cars after 2030

[Crissa]

I would much rather see the market naturally shift towards EVs due to them being a better product, less environmental impacts, etc.

How will we get that shift if we don't require garage owners or apartment developers to add charging to their plans?

-Crissa

 

[firsttruck]

I would much rather see the market naturally shift towards EVs due to them being a better product, less environmental impacts, etc.

How will we get that shift if we don't require garage owners or apartment developers to add charging to their plans?

And most of if does not need to be expensive high-speed high power DC chargers.

220V L2 charger are a lot less costly to buy & install.

Even just having accessible 110/120V L1 charging at each car parking spot would be sufficient for most apartment dwellers.

The cost to do this is probably much less than the health costs we all pay because of air pollution from fossil fuel burning.

 

[JJ_Tex]

How will we get that shift if we don't require garage owners or apartment developers to add charging to their plans?

-Crissa

I would still argue let the free market take care of it vs governmental requirements. That means if I have an EV, I'm going to be asking about outlets before I sign my lease and take my business to the locations that can give me the service I need. If I own the apartment building and see demand and/or lost business due to me not having outlets, I'm for sure going to figure out how to add outlets.

The same is true for owners of hotels, restaurants along the highway, movie theaters, grocery stores, etc. The smart ones are figuring out how to add chargers to ensure they will not miss out on future customers, regardless of whatever the government is doing. The ones that do not/cannot figure it out will see their business impacted.

BTW, I know this is no different than arguing about the designated hitter in baseball, Mary Ann or Ginger from Gilligan's island, or a million other things where there are lots of opinions and no clear cut answers. Thanks again for having me and civilly exchanging differing opinions, while we all wait patiently for the factory finish and our trucks to be produced.

 

[duck]

How will we get that shift if we don't require garage owners or apartment developers to add charging to their plans?

-Crissa

So eager to dictate control over private entities! I agree with JJ. Free market should determine the pace of change.

 

[Bill906]

The reason the government should step in is because if it doesn't, there'll be a stalemate. If I live in an apartment complex and apartment complexes don't have charging ports, I won't buy an EV. If no apartment tenants by EV's there's no reason for apartments to put in charging infrastructure. In this particular case specifically, the government giving the issue a little kick in the right direction will get the ball rolling.
@JJ_Tex Thank you for this civil and interesting debate also.

 

[Crissa]

So eager to dictate control over private entities! I agree with JJ. Free market should determine the pace of change.

Sorry, I believe in democracy and merit, not might or cash.

-Crissa

 

[JJ_Tex]

The reason the government should step in is because if it doesn't, there'll be a stalemate. If I live in an apartment complex and apartment complexes don't have charging ports, I won't buy an EV. If no apartment tenants by EV's there's no reason for apartments to put in charging infrastructure. In this particular case specifically, the government giving the issue a little kick in the right direction will get the ball rolling.
@JJ_Tex Thank you for this civil and interesting debate also.

Thanks, I think it is always good and healthy to learn everyone's perspectives, even if you do not always agree.
Using the stalemate example above, I'm curious to your thoughts on other "amenities" in apartments. Let's take high speed internet as an example. At some point in time, some apartments had high speed internet availability while others did not. I'm not aware of any government mandates making older apartments get access to high speed internet carriers, but they all did it because the landlords were worried about losing tenants and the ISPs wanted to make $ in those apartment buildings.
The same could be said about numerous other amenities in an apartment like central A/C, covered parking, a pool, a gym, etc. If the landlords/apartments do not keep up with the demand, they lose business. In my mind, EV charging outlets would just be another amenity that will become more common as demand grows and those apartments that do not keep up will not be as successful.
I'm curious to your thoughts, and how EV charging would be different than those other amenities.

 

[Sirfun]

The reason the government should step in is because if it doesn't, there'll be a stalemate. If I live in an apartment complex and apartment complexes don't have charging ports, I won't buy an EV. If no apartment tenants by EV's there's no reason for apartments to put in charging infrastructure. In this particular case specifically, the government giving the issue a little kick in the right direction will get the ball rolling.
@JJ_Tex Thank you for this civil and interesting debate also.

They don't need charging ports. All they need is a 110 plug, and overnight the vehicle would have replentished energy for a 40 mile drive. Maybe at work have a 110 outlet to plug in for another 25-30 miles. If needed maybe stop by a supercharger every couple of days for a fill-up. Who knows by 2030 a lot of apartment dwellers might prefer not to own a car and take Robotaxi. Between now and then we will see LOTS of hybrids go on the market. In the 6 months we've owned a Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid, we plug it in overnight with 110 and have put about $120 in gas into it.

 

[Crissa]

Thanks, ...

Yeah! But apartments have stopped at basic access. Why? Because it costs more to do more, and why should they take the hit when others don't?

By using the collective force of government we can both push and pave the way for better access.

If we want adoption to move faster - and we should, it saves lives and money collectively - we should use all our tools available to make it happen.

-Crissa

 

[Bill906]

Thanks, I think it is always good and healthy to learn everyone's perspectives, even if you do not always agree.
Using the stalemate example above, I'm curious to your thoughts on other "amenities" in apartments. Let's take high speed internet as an example. At some point in time, some apartments had high speed internet availability while others did not. I'm not aware of any government mandates making older apartments get access to high speed internet carriers, but they all did it because the landlords were worried about losing tenants and the ISPs wanted to make $ in those apartment buildings.
The same could be said about numerous other amenities in an apartment like central A/C, covered parking, a pool, a gym, etc. If the landlords/apartments do not keep up with the demand, they lose business. In my mind, EV charging outlets would just be another amenity that will become more common as demand grows and those apartments that do not keep up will not be as successful.
I'm curious to your thoughts, and how EV charging would be different than those other amenities.

The catch-22 scenario isn't there with having a pool, air conditioning or other ammenities. If apartment buildings don't have EV charging ability, aparment dwellers wont buy EV's. If apartment dwellers don't have EV's there's no reason for apartment buildings to have EV charging ability.

 

[Bill906]

They don't need charging ports. All they need is a 110 plug,

In my discussion I was considering any ability to charge a "charging port", including a 110VAC outlet. The problem is that in an apartment complex, you don't just need a simple 110VAC outlet. You need one that either is on the tenants electric meter, have the ability to measure and charge for the power consumed, or I guess charge a flat rate. Whether that is Level 1 110VAC plug, a common 220VAC plug, or an actual Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment (EVSE) device, doesn't matter.

 

[Sirfun]

The catch-22 scenario isn't there with having a pool, air conditioning or other ammenities. If apartment buildings don't have EV charging ability, aparment dwellers wont buy EV's. If apartment dwellers don't have EV's there's no reason for apartment buildings to have EV charging ability.

You're correct. Another way to look at it is, why fix a problem that doesn't exist. Who knows, when
EV's get really popular maybe there will be covered parking with Solar panels, all over the place. I tell my kids all the time "the more people, the more problems, the more rules". This is why California has so many rules. It's the nature of the world we live in.

 

[Crissa]

Every rule is a story of someone doing something stupid ^-^

-Crissa

 

[Sirfun]

Every rule is a story of someone doing something stupid ^-^

-Crissa

Yeah, but if one person does something stupid. And nobody sees it, no problem. If several people see it, we say that was stupid. But if several people do that same stupid act. We say, we've gotta do something about that. ?

 

[FutureBoy]

Yeah, but if one person does something stupid. And nobody sees it, no problem. If several people see it, we say that was stupid. But if several people do that same stupid act. We say, we've gotta do something about that. ?

So you mean like continuing to drive ICE vehicles even though we are being told it is going to bring about the destruction of the planet?